"Your voice on the radio on a Sunday afternoon" - Jesse Wells on how radio makes waves in music history
By Clay Wallace
October 23, 2024 at 12:23 AM EDT
In celebration of Public Radio Music Day, touring multi-instrumentalist, music archivist, and Morehead State professor Jesse Wells reflects on the impact of radio on Kentucky's musical traditions - and in his own life.
Interview transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Clay Wallace, WUKY
It's Public Radio Music Day, and I'm celebrating with a special guest, Jesse Wells. Hi, Jesse!
Jesse Wells
Hello, Clay!
Clay
Jesse is a multi-instrumentalist, but you may know him best from his fiddle playing with Tyler Childers and the Food Stamps. Often introduced on stage as Professor Jesse Wells, he's one of the founding staff members at Morehead State University's Kentucky Center for Traditional Music, where he's both an instructor and a music archivist.
Jesse, I'd like to invite you to step into your professorial role, because I want to chat with you a bit about music history. You grew up in a family of old-time musicians - what did that sound like?
Jesse
Music's been a part of my life since the day I was born, fortunately, or maybe before. I remember hearing all kinds of music, but the fiddle music that my dad and his brothers played and the music of my mother's family really helped me become what I am today, whether I'm playing fiddle tunes with Tyler or helping students at Morehead.
I come from a family of teachers as well, so I'm very passionate about sharing music of any type, but I'm especially drawn to the fiddle and banjo traditions of Kentucky and the songs of Kentucky and the stories that they tell - and especially the people involved: friends like John Harrod, who's one of our great Kentucky music historians, and then friends that I made along the way, like Beverly May from Southeast Kentucky, and my buddy Brett Ratliff. It's just been really fortunate to be a part of this community of musicians here and throughout Kentucky.
Clay
A lot of the musicians you mentioned play in this old-time genre. Can you talk a little bit about what that is? What is old-time music?
Jesse
Sure. The name is sort of used to deviate from bluegrass music, which is a very modern music. (They pinpoint the date to Bill Monroe, one of our great Kentucky music legends, creating that music in the Ryman Auditorium.)
Old-time encompasses traditional fiddle tunes and the style of banjo playing that they call "claw hammer" now, or you'll hear it called frailing the banjo, or drop thumb banjo. So, using the bare fingers, as opposed to using three fingers that you hear in the bluegrass music that Earl Scruggs popularized with Bill Monroe's Bluegrass Boys. And yet, they kind of intertwine in Kentucky!
I'm mainly a fiddle player. My favorite fiddlers played old-time tunes that they learned from their family and their neighbors over many generations. Paul David Smith was one of the most beautiful people I've ever met, a wonderful fiddler, and he learned to play music from Kenny Baker's family, Thaddeus Baker, Lexie Baker, and Snake Chapman in Pike County. Paul loved to play bluegrass music, and he loved to play swing tunes on the fiddle, much like Art Stamper, who actually played with Bill Monroe, and played with Jim and Jesse, and played with a lot of the legendary bluegrass artists. But his father, Hiram Stamper, from Knott County, Kentucky, was the source of most of his tunes that he played.
The genre is hard to pinpoint to an exact time. It's influenced by Scots-Irish traditions and, especially, the blues influence of African musicians who were brought to America. It's a melting pot of many different cultures. You have to especially note the importance of the banjo style's African influences: the akonting and instruments that people in West Africa still play today.
Really important musicians like Rhiannon Giddens are making that history known and bringing to revelation many things that have been hidden throughout history in this country. It's important to note the African-American influence on so much of our popular music, and Rhiannon Giddens has done a beautiful job of that through her work with the Carolina Chocolate Drops and mentors Joe Thompson and Odell Thompson.
Without the African-American influence, we would not have rock and roll music. We would not have R&B and pop. We wouldn't have a lot of country music - and Rhiannon's work has really centered around that connection. Country music is as much influenced by the African tradition and blues as it is our European fiddle music. It's just this beautiful melting pot, this blend of American music.
Clay
So many different types of music - blues and bluegrass and country and old time - they have this overlapping lineage. I was lucky enough to get to take lessons with you at Morehead State, where you taught me about the development of genres. Can you talk a little bit about how radio and the music industry influenced music genres as we know them today?
Jesse
Radio played a very important role in reaching communities and influencing their musicians. I think of Paul David Smith who I mentioned before, and he always talked about hearing Earl Scruggs play the banjo on the radio. He had heard these old-time styles of banjo playing and, if it wasn't for the radio waves transmitting into deep southeast Kentucky, he wouldn't have played the banjo the way he did, using a three-finger style.
The record industry also played an important role - and, of course, that was transmitted over the radio as well. Blues music, "race records" as they were called, and early string bands who were brought together to record, had their music was featured on the radio. A lot of times the genres that we talk about were sourced purely from an economic side, selling records, playing music on the radio, or playing concerts to promote a radio show - and that influenced so many musicians in those communities to play more modern styles.
It's really interesting. I heard a story yesterday where someone heard WSM radio out of Nashville, broadcasting the Grand Ole Opry. And something had happened where the radio waves had reached a farther distance, reaching someone who had never heard bluegrass music, and they just wanted to learn to play that music. I love that just hearing music on the radio, on a record, and now streaming as we do, radio and television, the influence is as deep as ever. I really feel like modern media is still helping influence young musicians. I hear my students talk about it every day. It's very inspiring.
Clay
Something I notice is that even when people come from different backgrounds and are influenced by different genres, when they play together, even for the first time, they can often find some middle musical ground within those genres.
Jesse
I find that the most rewarding thing is to meet people all around the world who know about our Kentucky music and may know a simple tune - they know the three chords that accompany that tune and we can make music instantly.
Clay
What does it mean to be a music archivist?
Jesse
My goal has been to to help preserve a lot of this music. Scholars like John Harrod and Mark Wilson and so many others have spent their lifetime visiting with these musicians and their families and making it their goal to preserve the tunes and the heritage of our community, especially here in Kentucky. I was rather young when I was drawn to these recordings, and my uncle David definitely influenced me to want to work with different media, especially tape.
The shelf life of many of these media is not forever. The Library of Congress uses 78 RPM records as their preservation. And still to this day, that's kind of the only media that we trust. And I love getting my hands dirty and getting in and transferring records and tapes. Through that process, I love having to sit in real time and hear these stories from families and how they learn to play music, what they cooked for dinner, and what they were growing in the garden. Just every little piece of the culture that goes along with the music. That's almost more important than the music.
I love hearing about Morgan Sexton learning to sing from the women in his family - so that's maybe why he had a little higher timbre to his voice. And just being able to have this for many generations beyond our time here is just very, very rewarding work.
Clay
When I was at Morehead, David Austin Tackett showed me an old, old Clarence Ashley recording of "The Cuckoo," which is now my favorite song to play. And it always struck me as so special to be able to, you know, reach back a hundred years and listen to how somebody was playing this song and the sort of music they were sharing with each other.
Jesse
That's a great tune to mention, because "The Cuckoo" lives on now through Jerry Garcia, the Grateful Dead. Jerry loved that tune and knowing that he learned that from Clarence Ashley. And why? Because someone had the foresight to record Clarence Ashley in North Carolina in the early 20th century and preserve those songs and that music. It's important work, and I believe that the young people sense that too.
David Austin's a great example. He's teaching these same songs to his students and he and Baylee are performing regularly and now they have a young daughter who will probably learn those same songs. It's those family connections, too, that are so important.
Clay
So there's a lot of talk about connection - connection through music, connection through family passing songs down, and connection through radio. Can you talk a little bit about what the role of public radio is in your life?
Jesse
Well, we were discussing earlier our roles at Morehead State Public Radio. I was lucky enough to be hired by Paul Hitchcock when I was a senior in college and then I continued to to do public radio for 11-plus years.
I made so many friends through radio. I'd be remiss not to mention Arthur Hancock, who I got to play with in a band, The Wooks, and The Wooks connection led to me playing with Tyler Childers. Arthur's the one who introduced me to Tyler.
I met Arthur on the radio on a Sunday morning. He was cutting hay on his family's property. He called me up and said, "Play some Grandpa Jones." And then almost every Sunday for as long as I could remember he would call and ask for some old-time banjo music and songs. Stringbean, Grandpa Jones, et cetera.
I made so many amazing friends through public radio. Your voice on the radio on a Sunday afternoon - I never realized how important that was until I left, and then missing those people that I talked to on the radio, and the people who would call me and say, "My grandpa played that fiddle tune," or "My grandma sang that song." It's just really a beautiful way to meet your neighbors and to pass along the culture and the heritage that we share here, all throughout Kentucky. My family's been here for a couple of hundred years and I don't see myself leaving.
I love the fact that we have these ways of connecting. Public radio is such an important part of all communities throughout Kentucky. I'm really proud to be here at WUKY speaking with you, Clay, and talking about these connections. And I live here in Lexington now and this is my radio station. My family listened to public radio every morning as I was growing up. So hearing the news, hearing the sports broadcasts, hearing, especially, the music... I wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for public radio.
FULLJesseInterview.mp3
Clay Wallace, WUKY
It's Public Radio Music Day, and I'm celebrating with a special guest, Jesse Wells. Hi, Jesse!
Jesse Wells
Hello, Clay!
Clay
Jesse is a multi-instrumentalist, but you may know him best from his fiddle playing with Tyler Childers and the Food Stamps. Often introduced on stage as Professor Jesse Wells, he's one of the founding staff members at Morehead State University's Kentucky Center for Traditional Music, where he's both an instructor and a music archivist.
Jesse, I'd like to invite you to step into your professorial role, because I want to chat with you a bit about music history. You grew up in a family of old-time musicians - what did that sound like?
Jesse
Music's been a part of my life since the day I was born, fortunately, or maybe before. I remember hearing all kinds of music, but the fiddle music that my dad and his brothers played and the music of my mother's family really helped me become what I am today, whether I'm playing fiddle tunes with Tyler or helping students at Morehead.
I come from a family of teachers as well, so I'm very passionate about sharing music of any type, but I'm especially drawn to the fiddle and banjo traditions of Kentucky and the songs of Kentucky and the stories that they tell - and especially the people involved: friends like John Harrod, who's one of our great Kentucky music historians, and then friends that I made along the way, like Beverly May from Southeast Kentucky, and my buddy Brett Ratliff. It's just been really fortunate to be a part of this community of musicians here and throughout Kentucky.
Clay
A lot of the musicians you mentioned play in this old-time genre. Can you talk a little bit about what that is? What is old-time music?
Jesse
Sure. The name is sort of used to deviate from bluegrass music, which is a very modern music. (They pinpoint the date to Bill Monroe, one of our great Kentucky music legends, creating that music in the Ryman Auditorium.)
Old-time encompasses traditional fiddle tunes and the style of banjo playing that they call "claw hammer" now, or you'll hear it called frailing the banjo, or drop thumb banjo. So, using the bare fingers, as opposed to using three fingers that you hear in the bluegrass music that Earl Scruggs popularized with Bill Monroe's Bluegrass Boys. And yet, they kind of intertwine in Kentucky!
I'm mainly a fiddle player. My favorite fiddlers played old-time tunes that they learned from their family and their neighbors over many generations. Paul David Smith was one of the most beautiful people I've ever met, a wonderful fiddler, and he learned to play music from Kenny Baker's family, Thaddeus Baker, Lexie Baker, and Snake Chapman in Pike County. Paul loved to play bluegrass music, and he loved to play swing tunes on the fiddle, much like Art Stamper, who actually played with Bill Monroe, and played with Jim and Jesse, and played with a lot of the legendary bluegrass artists. But his father, Hiram Stamper, from Knott County, Kentucky, was the source of most of his tunes that he played.
The genre is hard to pinpoint to an exact time. It's influenced by Scots-Irish traditions and, especially, the blues influence of African musicians who were brought to America. It's a melting pot of many different cultures. You have to especially note the importance of the banjo style's African influences: the akonting and instruments that people in West Africa still play today.
Really important musicians like Rhiannon Giddens are making that history known and bringing to revelation many things that have been hidden throughout history in this country. It's important to note the African-American influence on so much of our popular music, and Rhiannon Giddens has done a beautiful job of that through her work with the Carolina Chocolate Drops and mentors Joe Thompson and Odell Thompson.
Without the African-American influence, we would not have rock and roll music. We would not have R&B and pop. We wouldn't have a lot of country music - and Rhiannon's work has really centered around that connection. Country music is as much influenced by the African tradition and blues as it is our European fiddle music. It's just this beautiful melting pot, this blend of American music.
Clay
So many different types of music - blues and bluegrass and country and old time - they have this overlapping lineage. I was lucky enough to get to take lessons with you at Morehead State, where you taught me about the development of genres. Can you talk a little bit about how radio and the music industry influenced music genres as we know them today?
Jesse
Radio played a very important role in reaching communities and influencing their musicians. I think of Paul David Smith who I mentioned before, and he always talked about hearing Earl Scruggs play the banjo on the radio. He had heard these old-time styles of banjo playing and, if it wasn't for the radio waves transmitting into deep southeast Kentucky, he wouldn't have played the banjo the way he did, using a three-finger style.
The record industry also played an important role - and, of course, that was transmitted over the radio as well. Blues music, "race records" as they were called, and early string bands who were brought together to record, had their music was featured on the radio. A lot of times the genres that we talk about were sourced purely from an economic side, selling records, playing music on the radio, or playing concerts to promote a radio show - and that influenced so many musicians in those communities to play more modern styles.
It's really interesting. I heard a story yesterday where someone heard WSM radio out of Nashville, broadcasting the Grand Ole Opry. And something had happened where the radio waves had reached a farther distance, reaching someone who had never heard bluegrass music, and they just wanted to learn to play that music. I love that just hearing music on the radio, on a record, and now streaming as we do, radio and television, the influence is as deep as ever. I really feel like modern media is still helping influence young musicians. I hear my students talk about it every day. It's very inspiring.
Clay
Something I notice is that even when people come from different backgrounds and are influenced by different genres, when they play together, even for the first time, they can often find some middle musical ground within those genres.
Jesse
I find that the most rewarding thing is to meet people all around the world who know about our Kentucky music and may know a simple tune - they know the three chords that accompany that tune and we can make music instantly.
Clay
What does it mean to be a music archivist?
Jesse
My goal has been to to help preserve a lot of this music. Scholars like John Harrod and Mark Wilson and so many others have spent their lifetime visiting with these musicians and their families and making it their goal to preserve the tunes and the heritage of our community, especially here in Kentucky. I was rather young when I was drawn to these recordings, and my uncle David definitely influenced me to want to work with different media, especially tape.
The shelf life of many of these media is not forever. The Library of Congress uses 78 RPM records as their preservation. And still to this day, that's kind of the only media that we trust. And I love getting my hands dirty and getting in and transferring records and tapes. Through that process, I love having to sit in real time and hear these stories from families and how they learn to play music, what they cooked for dinner, and what they were growing in the garden. Just every little piece of the culture that goes along with the music. That's almost more important than the music.
I love hearing about Morgan Sexton learning to sing from the women in his family - so that's maybe why he had a little higher timbre to his voice. And just being able to have this for many generations beyond our time here is just very, very rewarding work.
Clay
When I was at Morehead, David Austin Tackett showed me an old, old Clarence Ashley recording of "The Cuckoo," which is now my favorite song to play. And it always struck me as so special to be able to, you know, reach back a hundred years and listen to how somebody was playing this song and the sort of music they were sharing with each other.
Jesse
That's a great tune to mention, because "The Cuckoo" lives on now through Jerry Garcia, the Grateful Dead. Jerry loved that tune and knowing that he learned that from Clarence Ashley. And why? Because someone had the foresight to record Clarence Ashley in North Carolina in the early 20th century and preserve those songs and that music. It's important work, and I believe that the young people sense that too.
David Austin's a great example. He's teaching these same songs to his students and he and Baylee are performing regularly and now they have a young daughter who will probably learn those same songs. It's those family connections, too, that are so important.
Clay
So there's a lot of talk about connection - connection through music, connection through family passing songs down, and connection through radio. Can you talk a little bit about what the role of public radio is in your life?
Jesse
Well, we were discussing earlier our roles at Morehead State Public Radio. I was lucky enough to be hired by Paul Hitchcock when I was a senior in college and then I continued to to do public radio for 11-plus years.
I made so many friends through radio. I'd be remiss not to mention Arthur Hancock, who I got to play with in a band, The Wooks, and The Wooks connection led to me playing with Tyler Childers. Arthur's the one who introduced me to Tyler.
I met Arthur on the radio on a Sunday morning. He was cutting hay on his family's property. He called me up and said, "Play some Grandpa Jones." And then almost every Sunday for as long as I could remember he would call and ask for some old-time banjo music and songs. Stringbean, Grandpa Jones, et cetera.
I made so many amazing friends through public radio. Your voice on the radio on a Sunday afternoon - I never realized how important that was until I left, and then missing those people that I talked to on the radio, and the people who would call me and say, "My grandpa played that fiddle tune," or "My grandma sang that song." It's just really a beautiful way to meet your neighbors and to pass along the culture and the heritage that we share here, all throughout Kentucky. My family's been here for a couple of hundred years and I don't see myself leaving.
I love the fact that we have these ways of connecting. Public radio is such an important part of all communities throughout Kentucky. I'm really proud to be here at WUKY speaking with you, Clay, and talking about these connections. And I live here in Lexington now and this is my radio station. My family listened to public radio every morning as I was growing up. So hearing the news, hearing the sports broadcasts, hearing, especially, the music... I wouldn't be who I am today if it wasn't for public radio.
FULLJesseInterview.mp3